Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Šī sadaļa paredzēta tēmām un diskusijām, kas neatbilst citām kategorijām. Aktuālu Latvijas radio amatierisma jautājumu apspriešana, priekšlikumi utt
YL3IM

Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by YL3IM » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:24 pm

yl3ajk wrote:Vienkaršais Uīv setap ap 200-300€, ar to saņēmt licenci.
B kategorijas saņemšanai pietiks ar prastu Baofengu (30€), pat Yagi nevajag. Var pat nepirkt, bet aizņemties no kāda.
C kategorijai nevajag uzrādīt vispār neko.
yl3ajk wrote: zvsnīt uz direkciju ka staciha ir sarīkota un lai vini veic apskatu
Vai arī pateikt, ka lietosi rokas staciju, un sarunāt tās uzrādīšanu VAS ES telpās, ja esi rīdzinieks — tā būs ātrāk.
yl3ajk wrote:InteresAnti, ir atļauts jaunai C kategorijas īpašniekiem DMR radio?
Tikai F3E un G3E modulācija atļauta.

sergis
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by sergis » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:41 pm

Paldies YL3IM!
YL3AJK - mans sākums ir tieši tāds pats..

Uz īsviļnu transīveri patlaban skatos - un ir tā ka, pagaidām man tas prieks nekādi nesanāk, bez tam aparāts ir tikai viena pasākuma puse, vēl vajag arī labu antēnu. Tā kā patlaban niekojos ar CB un 70cm (baofeng + yagi), priekš 2m man pagaidām nav antēnas un atrodoties no Rīgas 70km ar gumijas puļķi neko sadzirdēt neizdodas. Plānoju tuvākajā laikā veltīt laiku lai uzbūvētu divu diapazonu yagi 2m un 70cm (4 + 7el) un CB diapazona bāzes antenu.

Man pagaidām intresantāk ir uzbūvēt antēnu, pārliecināties ka tā strādā un paklausīties ēteri, nekā pašam raidīt :)

Jā depo labs izejmateriālu avots :)
Lai gan pirmais yagi tapa no tā kas pie rokas - plastmasas boom'a un metināšanas elektrodiem :oops:

yl3ajk
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Ko35fu daugavpils

Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by yl3ajk » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:09 am

Ja gribi sākt būvēt antennas, iesaku sakrāt euros un paņemt antenas analizatoru. Kādu rigexpert AA-30, ar grafisko monitoru.nav lēti bet ļoti kvalitatīvs verķis.
Ar to palīdzību varēsi noregulēt pašbūvētas antenas, un kurus nākotnē pirksi.

Ja iemacisies "iedzīt" rezonansā cb piem., dipolus, yagi, 5/8, tad ar šo pieredzi tiksi gala ar jebkuru citu.

Laba antenna īsvilniem nav obligati milzīgs daudz diapazonu yagi, pietiks ar vertikali ka cushcraft r8, hygain av-640, gap-titan, un lētāki varianti ir tas kopijas.

Īsviļnu aparatu es ieteiktu kādu no SDR ukraiņu versijas sdr-1000ua, vai kas lidzīgs. Cena apmēram 300-400€ +labu audiokartu ( bet var nopirkt ne uzreiz) ,un sdr ir daudz interesantāk nekā tradicionālie "zarki"(pašam ir yaesu897d) .
Ja tagad es būtu iesācējs, pirktu sdr.

sergis
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by sergis » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:19 pm

Paldies par intresanto viedokli!

Antenas analizators, lieta laba, bet patlaban komerciālu aparātu ,"ņemt", negribas, nupat izkodināju pcb priekš antenas analizatora kurš bāzēts uz arduino. Ja var ticēt projekta autoram, tad stabili strādā līdz pat 156Mhz - gaidu komponentes no mouser, tad varēšu pārbaudīt dabā, vai apgalvojums ir paties vai nē.

Pagaidām uzbūvētās antēnas ir UHF diapazonā - tik advancētam, antenu analizatoram nesanāks budžets.
CB dipols ir projektā :)

SDR ir, bet sajūsmā pagaidām neesmu - laikam tāpēc ka 5$ versija, un no 24Mhz - 1900Mhz, arī jūtība nav tā labākā.
Noteikti paskatīšos uz ukraiņu SDRiem!

yl3je
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:56 pm
Location: Ramava, Kekavas pagastas
Contact:

Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by yl3je » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:49 pm

Sveiki,

yl3im wrote:
yl3ajk wrote:InteresAnti, ir atļauts jaunai C kategorijas īpašniekiem DMR radio?
Tikai F3E un G3E modulācija atļauta.
via GOOGLE translate:

Oficiāli modulācija ar vienu timeslot TDMA signāla tips ar 4FSK modulācijas DMR kanāls būtu

7K60FXE (skat FCC https://fccid.io/Emissions-Designator/7K60FXE mājas lapā, nezināms modulācija avota, 7,6kHz platums)

Ja modulācija avots ir analogais balss, tas pārvērsties 7K60F3E !!!
Saskaņā ar šo definīciju, ja ir amatieru radio klases ļaujot F3E, tas ietver DMR tikai balss! Stacijas nav atļauts izmantot ziņojumapmaiņas vai APRS GPS laikspiedogus, bet runāju būtu atļauts tikai !!

Lai būtu godīgi, sistēmā kā aprakstīt emisijas, TDMA sistēmas ar 2 kanāliem, piemēram, DMR, ko var izmantot balss vai datu, tajā pašā laikā, ir tikai nodot modulācijas signāla avota klasei X, jo nav cita klase pilnībā atbilst . BET, ar kādu racionālu domāšanu, kādu tikai balss sistēmu, modulācijas signāla avots 3 klasi varēja paredzēt. Citiem līdzīgiem vienkanāla sistēmas ir nodots F1E ...
Protams, tīri tehniskā ziņā, viens DMR balss kanāls nevar būt F3E, jo tas ir digitalizēta balss nosūtīti caur AMBE+ CODEC/VOCODER dodot balss paketes kopā ar FEC un signalizācijas bitu modulācijas kanālā ... Ideja būtībā ir, skatīties no lietošanas puses, kas bija ideja, piemēram, ierobežot klase "C", balss un ko tas nozīmē nākotnes amatieru radio balss sakariem ...

Es domāju, , ka visi radio amatieri un LRAL jāsazinās VAS ES skaidri paskaidrot, un, manuprāt, DMR VOICE ONLY jāļauj jebkuram licences klasei Latvijā, pat ja tas tiks definēta kā 7K60F1E vai 7K60FXE!

73 de DF5ZX / yl3je
Jürgen

/EDIT: Lai izvairītos no pārpratumiem par modulācijas veidu!

--snip--
Officially, the modulation type of a single timeslot TDMA signal on a 4FSK modulation DMR channel would be

7K60FXE (see FCC webpage, unknown modulation source, 7,6kHz width)

If the modulation source is analog voice, this would change into 7K60F3E !!!
According to these definition, if there is a amateur radio class allowing F3E, this will include DMR VOICE ONLY ! Stations are not allowed to use messaging or APRS GPS timestamps, but talking only would be allowed !!

To be honest, in the system how to describe emissions, TDMA systems with 2 channels like DMR what can be used for VOICE or DATA at the same time, are just put into modulation signal source class X, because there is not other class fully matching. BUT, with some rational thinking, for some VOICE ONLY system, modulation signal source class 3 could be anticipated. Other comparable single channel systems have been put into F1E ...
Of course, in a pure technical sense, a single DMR voice channel can not be F3E, because it is digitized voice sent through an AMBE+ CODEC/VOCODER giving voice packets along with FEC and signalling bits in the modulated channel... The idea basically is, to look from the usage side, what was the idea e.g. to limit class "C" to voice and what does that mean for future amateur radio voice communications...

I think all radio amateurs and LRAL must contact VAS ES to clearly clarify, and to my mind, DMR VOICE ONLY should be allowed to any license class in Latvia, even if it will be defined as 7K60F1E or 7K60FXE !


73 de DF5ZX/yl3je
Jürgen

/EDIT: To avoid misunderstanding about modulation type !
Last edited by yl3je on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.

yl3je
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Re: Par "atbalstu" jaunajiem radiomatieriem

Post by yl3je » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:45 pm

Es arī vēlos norādīt uz ilgi iet diskusijas par šo jautājumu ASV::

Fragments ņemts no ARRL http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-seeks-to-c ... sion-types :


emisijas veidi

...

Lai pārvietotu attīstību Latvijā uz mūsdienu amatieru radio sistēmām, klasei "C" pievienošana F1E un FXE (un varbūt G1E un GXE) par licences prasības ir nepieciešamas, cik drīz vien iespējams. Lai būtu godīgi, es esmu jautājums, kāpēc šī attīstība nav publiski apspriesti starp Latvijas amatieru vispār, pirms klase "C" tika definēts un ieviests.


73 de DF5ZX / yl3je
Jürgen

--snip--

I also want to point to the long going discussion on this point in the USA:

Excerpt taken from ARRL http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-seeks-to-c ... sion-types :


Emission Types

Emission Designators
Part 97 of the Commission’s Rules specifies the emission types that may be transmitted on amateur frequencies. For data (telemetry, telecommand and computer communications), emission types may have A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol, 1 as the second symbol and D as the third symbol [Editor’s note: See Footnote 53 in the NPRM: “Certain other data emission types are also permitted under particular circumstances.”]. For telephony (speech and other sound emissions), emission types may have A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol with 1, 2 or 3 as the second symbol and E as the third symbol.

An emission designator describes an emission’s characteristics. A minimum of three symbols is used to describe the basic characteristics of the radio emission. The first symbol designates the type of modulation. For example, F is used for frequency modulation. The second symbol designates the nature of the signal modulating the main carrier. For example, 7 is used for two or more channels containing quantized or digital information. The third symbol designates the type of information to be transmitted. For example, D is used for data transmission, and E is used for telephony.

In its Petition, the ARRL stated that Amateur Service licensees have recently established numerous narrowband UHF repeater facilities using multiple time-slot Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) repeaters and single-slot TDMA handheld digital transceivers, principally in the 70 cm (420-450 MHz) band.

“Specifically, the ARRL notes that a Motorola system used by some Amateur Radio operators uses two-slot TDMA technology for the repeater and single-slot TDMA emissions for the associated portable and mobile transceivers and that the system ‘specifies emission designators 7K60FXE in voice operation and 7K60FXD for data,’” the FCC noted. “The present rules, however, do not appear to permit amateur stations to transmit single-slot TDMA emissions on Amateur Service channels above 30 MHz. Part 97 does not specifically authorize any phone or data emission designators with X as the second symbol. Consequently, the ARRL requests that the Commission amend its rules to revise Section 97.3(c) to include emission type FXE in the definition of a phone emission, and to revise Section 97.307(f)(8) to allow amateur stations to transmit data emission type FXD.”

The FCC pointed out that one of the purposes of the Amateur Service is to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. “Allowing amateur stations to use communication technologies that are used in other radio services, such as TDMA technologies, allows Amateur Service licensees to experiment with and improve these technologies and, therefore, is consistent with the basis and purpose of the Amateur Service. For this reason, we agree with the ARRL that the current rules allowing the use of multiple time-slot TDMA repeaters, but not permitting amateur stations to transmit single-slot TDMA emissions, may be unnecessarily impeding Amateur Radio operators in advancing the radio art.

“Another purpose of the Amateur Service is to assist the public as a voluntary and noncommercial communications service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications. Allowing amateur stations to use equipment that is in use in other radio services allows Amateur Service licensees to put, in this case, modern repeater systems on the air, thereby benefiting the public if these systems are needed to provide emergency communications.”

In seeking to change the rules for these emission types, the FCC noted that the purpose of specifying emission designators for the Amateur Service “is to relegate the transmission of certain inharmonious emission types to different segments of the frequency bands, while still allowing great flexibility in the types of emissions that may be transmitted by amateur stations. We do not believe that this purpose is served by excluding FXE and FXD emissions. Accordingly, we propose to amend Section 97.3(c)(5) to allow emission type FXE as a phone emission and to amend Section 97.307(f)(8) to allow emission type FXD as a data emission. We believe that this proposed rule change would encourage individuals who can contribute to the advancement of the radio art to more fully utilize TDMA technologies in experimentation and promote more efficient use of the radio spectrum currently allocated to the Amateur Service.” The FCC also seeks comments on whether any other specific emission types, such as F7E, should be permitted.

To move development in Latvia towards modern amateur radio systems, for class " C" adding of F1E and FXE (and maybe G1E and GXE) into the license requirements are necessary as soon as possible. To be honest, I am wondering why this development has not been publicly discussed among Latvian amateurs at all, before the class "C" had been defined and introduced.

73 de DF5ZX/yl3je
Jürgen

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